Scott Peterson, Vice President of U.S. Tax Policy and Government Relations for Avalara, sat down with Jason Heckel, Senior Director of Tax at Zillow Group, to understand how he manages sales tax compliance in his role
Scott: What comes to mind when someone mentions sales tax?
Jason: One word: challenging. And far more challenging than income tax. Sales tax is ever-changing; it’s state by state and no states particularly agree on how to handle it. You’re talking about at least 50 different laws when you have questions like: What is taxable? How is it taxed? Is it a tax borne by the customer? Being on top of every one of those laws is extremely challenging, if not impossible. The migration of the business world to digital and remote sales, coupled with the lack of clarity on the taxation of these transaction creates headaches for companies such as ours.
There is the misconception that income taxes are a big challenge and indirect taxes are revenue multiplied by a set rate. It's so much more complex than that.
Scott: When did Zillow first address sales tax compliance? And why?
Jason: I was one of the first tax-related, internal hires at Zillow. The company understood the importance of tax compliance early on. They understand that when a company is not compliant, there can be costly consequences.
In Zillow’s case, or for any other business considering taking a company public or looking at an IPO, you're potentially sitting on a huge liability for sales and use tax, which can really affect your ability to move forward as an organization and grow. They invested in this role to minimize the risk and liability as the company continues to grow.
Scott: How do you maintain business efficiency while ensuring Zillow’s sales tax compliance?
Jason: At Zillow, we live in a technology environment and operate like a startup even though we are a billion-dollar company. One of our core values is ‘move fast and think big.’ As part of that, we try to operate extremely fast and be very efficient in everything we do.
As it pertains to sales tax, the key is to have all major stakeholders from different business functions involved, and to have the right resources, software, and tools in place to react quickly and move forward with the business. No one wants to slow down because of a tax issue, so you must operate quickly and efficiently.
Scott: What steps do you take to minimize company risk?
Jason: I try to stay in front of anything that might pose a tax risk to the company. The financial statement impact is just too important and I have to stay on top of sales tax specifically. It is essential for a tax expert to have a ‘seat at the table’ for certain business decisions — getting the right people in the same room to understand tax implications and risks. Then, it’s my responsibility to constantly monitor risk and exposure on my company’s behalf.
Scott: Why is it important for a sales tax expert to have a seat at the table and who is involved in this process?
Jason: It’s important that all critical areas of the business are involved to ensure all points of view are considered.
First, it’s important to bring in the revenue side of the business to understand the complete suite of products your company is selling. Then, you need to understand who is buying these products and how they are being sold so you can help determine the correct taxability.
Then from a technology perspective, you need to understand the corporate applications and billing systems that are in use to understand how things are being calculated and applied to the customers.
And then finally, from the accounting and general ledger perspective, you need to make sure you are considering the correct accounting and tax liability based on the information provided.
Scott: How does sales tax differ when it comes to a software business?
Jason: State jurisdictions are still trying to catch up to what technology is doing. For example, Software as a Service does not exist in tax codes everywhere, nor do all the states agree on the definition of SaaS. Every state seems to handle the taxability of software a little bit differently so that complicates matters even more.
Scott: What has been your strategy for approaching taxation of digital goods?
Jason: With taxation of digital goods, you can’t necessarily look to the law and think you’ve got the best answer because a new case could come out and be completely different than the actual statute. Then you're just lost in the mix and you're not sure what to do. You have to stay on top of it all, and unfortunately, there really isn’t an easy answer.
In Part 2 of this interview, Jason will review how he selected vendors to automate Zillow’s sales tax process and the benefits and challenges that has brought.
Jason Heckel is Senior Director of Tax at Zillow Group. A tax specialist with more than 14 years of experience working for and with both private and public multinational companies, Jason has expertise with SEC reporting, large corporate income tax reporting, mergers and acquisitions, entity restructuring, IRS and state tax examinations, as well as indirect tax analysis including nexus and taxability studies.
Zillow Group houses a portfolio of the largest and most vibrant real estate and home-related brands on mobile and the web. With its living database of more than 110 million U.S. homes, Zillow serves people throughout the home lifecycle, including buying, selling, renting, and financing. The company also provides Zestimates, starting points for determining a home’s value, Rent Zestimates, and other home-related information. In 2015, Zillow acquired Trulia, an acquisition that greatly changed the way Zillow conducts business and operates on a day-to-day basis.